Why so many different names for the firmware .DFU files?

christianidis@tutanota.com Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38496 Why on https://github.com/hugen79/NanoVNA-H/releases/tag/1.2.27 there are there multiple options to download for NanoVNA-H? What is the difference between: NanoVNA-H-MS_20240220.dfu NanoVNA-H-SI_20240220.dfu NanoVNA-H-SM_ST_20240220.dfu ? The MS, SI, postfix, are those the type of the clock generator in the NanoVNA? How do I tell which one is for my device? (NanoVNA-H)
Stan Dye Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38497 Yes, those are the different makes of the clock generator chip. If you have an older -H, you have the SI. If you have the MS, your hardware version number on the back will have an "MS" in it. I'm not sure of the exact marking for the SM_ST, but it will also be in the hardware version number on the back, and you don't have it unless you got a new nanovna this year. And... the MS and SI builds are identical except for the initialization of the clock gen type variable, which you can set under the expert settings menu, so either file will be ok as long as you go into the menu and make sure the correct type is set. Stan
Ray Lulling Профіль учасника Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38503 I thought the H4 had both chips. One was better at higher frequencies and the other better at lower. So the firmware offered a way to switch which chip was being used to get better results? Our needs for instance are mostly in the 850 - 1000 Mhz range.
Dragan Milivojevic Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38504 H4 is a wrong device for that range. On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 at 16:37, Ray Lulling via groups.io <ray@...> wrote: I thought the H4 had both chips. One was better at higher frequencies and the other better at lower. So the firmware offered a way to switch which chip was being used to get better results? Our needs for instance are mostly in the 850 - 1000 Mhz range.
Ray Lulling Профіль учасника Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38506 H4 is a wrong device for that range. Can I ask you to explain further?
Stan Dye Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38507 On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 07:37 AM, Ray Lulling wrote: I thought the H4 had both chips. No. All of the vna models I am aware of have only one. The MS vs SI chip is really an 'available supply' issue rather than a performance one. The firmware selection is to accommodate whichever one is in your device. And as the previous poster said, if you primarily want to work at 850MHz-1GHz, you would probably be happier if you pay a bit more and choose the litevna64 or one of the V2 models that are designed for higher frequencies. Yes, the H4 will 'work' up beyond 1.5GHz - but its performance drops off significantly as you go up in frequency. Its best performance is up to 300MHz, and it still works reasonably well up to 800 or 900MHz (its original spec'd top frequency) - but regardless of which chip it has, all of these higher frequencies have a much decreased dynamic range. The units units designed and advertised for 4-6GHz have many of the same issues at their highest frequencies, but work much better than the H4 at 800-900MHz and in the low GHz range.
Siegfried Jackstien Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38508 the h4 (or other "older" nanovna models) have a clock up to 300 megs and up to 900megs or 1.5ghz is done with third or fifth harmonics the newer V2, saa2n etc.. are made with a clock up to 4.4ghz or a clock up to 6ghz (litevna62/64) so they work much better in UHF or higher dg9bfc sigi Am 06.11.2024 19:55 schrieb Stan Dye <standye@...>: переключити цитоване повідомлення Показати цитований текст On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 07:37 AM, Ray Lulling wrote: I thought the H4 had both chips. No. All of the vna models I am aware of have only one. The MS vs SI chip is really an 'available supply' issue rather than a performance one. The firmware selection is to accommodate whichever one is in your device. And as the previous poster said, if you primarily want to work at 850MHz-1GHz, you would probably be happier if you pay a bit more and choose the litevna64 or one of the V2 models that are designed for higher frequencies. Yes, the H4 will 'work' up beyond 1.5GHz - but its performance drops off significantly as you go up in frequency. Its best performance is up to 300MHz, and it still works reasonably well up to 800 or 900MHz (its original spec'd top frequency) - but regardless of which chip it has, all of these higher frequencies have a much decreased dynamic range. The units units designed and advertised for 4-6GHz have many of the same issues at their highest frequencies, but work much better than the H4 at 800-900MHz and in the low GHz range.
Dragan Milivojevic Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38509 For all frequencies above ~300MHz H4 uses harmonics of the clock generator so it hurts the dynamic range. On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 at 18:13, Ray Lulling via groups.io <ray= innovativetimingsystems.com@groups.io> wrote: H4 is a wrong device for that range. Can I ask you to explain further?
Matthew Rapaport Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38510 Can someone describe the impact of the H4 clock rate on a measurement? An example: I do an S21 test on a 20db attenuator sweeping 401 points from 1 to 900 MHz (the VNA calibrated across this range). The LOGMAG display shows a completely flat response, 20db across the whole range. The Smith chart shows a tiny amount of inductive reactance that increases (tho still very small) as the frequency goes up. How does the loss of dynamic range impact my measurement at frequencies above 300 MHz? Is the display, what I see on the screen, less "trustworthy" over 300MHz? Should I interpret the LOGMAG and Smith reports differently below and above 300MHz? What is the practical outcome of the dynamic range restriction on my test?
Team-SIM SIM-Mode Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38511 Hi Matthew Good and nice question : it seems to me that harmonics are less reproductible than fondamentals of the LO , so it should have more erratic behavior then calibration will not stay as good as for fondamentals for longer time, indeed when calibration is very new all seems ok even better then annonced -90db dynamic range but after some time it will be -80db after one day may be -70db due to temperature derivation or mecanique position or some battery drop ect , but -60 db is still ok for most of applications including yours , new calibration just before measurement with same conditions will help to have better result i guess , -F version allow different sweep points calibrations for each saver memory c0, c1,c2,c4 .... Still no idea about H4 version . 73's Nizar
Donald S Brant Jr Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38513 On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 12:15 AM, Matthew Rapaport wrote: What is the practical outcome of the dynamic range restriction on my test? For a 20dB attenuator, none. 73, Don N2VGU
Matthew Rapaport Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38514 Nizar & Don... Thanks. As different as they are, both are helpful answers. 👏👏🙏
Dragan Milivojevic Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38515 Terminate port 1 with a 50Ω load, measure S21. Add ~10db to the trace and more or less you get your safe limits. On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 at 06:15, Matthew Rapaport via groups.io <quineatal@...> wrote: Can someone describe the impact of the H4 clock rate on a measurement? An example: I do an S21 test on a 20db attenuator sweeping 401 points from 1 to 900 MHz (the VNA calibrated across this range). The LOGMAG display shows a completely flat response, 20db across the whole range. The Smith chart shows a tiny amount of inductive reactance that increases (tho still very small) as the frequency goes up. How does the loss of dynamic range impact my measurement at frequencies above 300 MHz? Is the display, what I see on the screen, less "trustworthy" over 300MHz? Should I interpret the LOGMAG and Smith reports differently below and above 300MHz? What is the practical outcome of the dynamic range restriction on my test?
Clyde Lambert Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38527 Hello group, Can I ask what all this has to do with the ORIGINAL QUESTION?? "Why so many different names for the firmware .DFU files?" I love how so many people seem to enjoy HIGHJACKING a subject. At least the moderator should change the title to what the subject has become. Just my question. Thank you, 73's KC7BJE
Ray Lulling Профіль учасника Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38529 My understanding is that the answer was the clock chips are the reason for the variants. So it is important to discover which version of the hardware a person has to install the right firmware. Thus I had questioned about thinking the H4 had 2 chips that were toggled by the firmware. But was corrected, as there is only one. It was stated that the H4 would be wrong for the frequencies I mentioned and I asked out of curiosity why that would be so. I would like to think not only was the question answered but everything after was a relevant or related segway. Firmware Versions -> Hardware Variants -> Clock Chips -> How this directly effects our work.
Matthew Rapaport Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38530 A natural evolution. As a related comment, using Amazon as a relative comparison, the H4 versions are U.S. $60-$90 while the V2 versions (with N connectors or SMA) run $250-$360.
John Gord Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38531 If you are in the US, R and L Electronics (randl.com) has the 3GHz NanoVNA SAA2N at $110 and the 6GHz LiteVNA64 at $160. I have both, and have been very happy with R and L as a supplier. --John Gord переключити цитоване повідомлення Показати цитований текст On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 04:36 PM, Matthew Rapaport wrote: A natural evolution. As a related comment, using Amazon as a relative comparison, the H4 versions are U.S. $60-$90 while the V2 versions (with N connectors or SMA) run $250-$360.
Team-SIM SIM-Mode Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38532 Hi John Gord Did SAA2N & LiteVNA64 has the same firmware of NanoVna-H4 ? And did they work as good as -H4 on 10Khz-300Mhz band ? 73's Nizar
Glen Jenkins WB4KTF Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38764 Hello folks, I'd like to know which ONE of the many firmware files, that Christian, first linked to that I need to install on my nanoVNA-H4 to have the latest. My unit's data is: Version 1.1.2 Build Timw Dec 17, 2021 Architecture: ARMv7-M Platform: STM32F303xC TCXO: 26.000.000 MHz Thanks for your advice. ----- Glen Jenkins, WB4KTF, Austin, TX
Stan Dye Всі повідомлення цього користувача #38765 https://github.com/DiSlord/NanoVNA-D/releases For the -H4, it is one of the two binaries with -H4 in the name. Which one depends on how you are updating your firmware. If you are using STM32CubeProgrammer, use the .bin file If you are using DFuseDemo, use the .dfu file If you are using nanovna-app, I think either the .bin or the .dfu will work. If you choose the wrong type (dfu vs bin), the programmer software will complain and not load it, so no harm done. But don't choose a file without -H4 in the name: it may load correctly, but will not work.

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