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Tony Casey wrote:
... I would like every setting to be changeable by a schematic directive, but not all are.
Along those lines, would you want LTspice to remember the settings you changed, from one run to the next?
Sometimes it's good if it remembers. Sometimes, maybe not so much.
Andy
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On 09/11/2024 16:15, Andy I via
groups.io wrote:
Along those lines, would you want LTspice to remember the
settings you changed, from one run to the next?
Sometimes it's good if it remembers. Sometimes, maybe not so
much.
I try not to use the volatile CP settings precisely for that reason
of vaguery. I would prefer all Control Panel settings to be
remembered (and henceforth rarely touched) and run-by-run changes
applied with directives. That way, I would always know the
conditions for each run. The .ini file would have to grow somewhat,
but who cares? I suspect most people never even look at it.
I also keep backup copies of the .ini file too, as occasionally it
can get trashed. I also have several different ones - for example if
it's necessary to temporarily revert the text settings. I appreciate
I might not be a "typical" user.
--
Regards,
Tony
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On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 12:01 PM, Voegeli, Benjamin wrote:
Andy - Good point, there should be a .option to select modified trap. We will add support for ".options method modtrap" in the next revision.
May I suggest this instead:
".options modtrap=1" (or ".options modtrap=True" since True = 1)
".options modtrap=0" (or ".options modtrap=False" since False = 0)
to select whether to use Modified Trap post-processing, when Trapezoidal (method=Trap) is your current default. It may be coupled with ".options method=Trap" but need not be.
Andy
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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 10:50 AM, Tony Casey wrote:
I try not to use the volatile CP settings precisely for that reason of vaguery. I would prefer all Control Panel settings to be remembered (and henceforth rarely touched) and run-by-run changes applied with directives. That way, I would always know the conditions for each run. ...
I want to bring up the Alternate Solver. That setting can only be changed in the Settings / Control Panel. And it is remembered from one run to the next. Ugh!
In my opinion, that's bad. Maybe it was necessary, but it's bad practice, IMO.
Even if it were possible to make that an .OPTIONS setting (Mike E. said it couldn't, but I'm sure it could if ADI wanted to make one), would you want LTspice to remember that setting from one run to the next? As a helper here in this group, you might run someone else's simulation which changes that setting, and now you may be stuck with it and not know it.
Frequently, I get caught by surprise when I changed to the Alternate solver, then later (maybe weeks later) I notice my simulation results do not look like someone else's, and the reason is the Alternate solver! I don't like that, I really don't like it. Sure, it's my fault that I chose the Alternate Solver, but sometimes I needed to so that I could run ONE PARTICULAR simulation, and then an hour or a day later I forget to change it back to Normal.
I also don't like the fact that LTspice announces the Alternate solver by hiding it in the bottom right corner of the screen where I never look. It should SCREAM "Alternate Solver", not whisper it. Remember that Flashing Red I mentioned yesterday? But that is another issue.
In traditional (Berkeley) SPICE, you knew exactly what you were getting because all the defaults were true defaults and everyone got them, every time. You had to set up any change you wanted, at the top of every simulation. I was used to doing that. All I needed was a simple .INC file to load my preferences. If I remember correctly, PSpice and HSPICE worked the same way too, but it's possible they have changed.
Andy
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On 09/11/2024 16:15, Andy I via groups.io wrote:
Along those lines, would you want LTspice to remember the settings you changed, from one run to the next?
Sometimes it's good if it remembers. Sometimes, maybe not so much.
I agree with Tony.
I'd like to see all CP properties be sticky and all .option modifications of CP properties placed on a schematic to alter the CP property for that schematic only.
The way to change the stuck nature of a CP property should be accomplished only by changing the CP property directly in the CP.
All for now
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Hallo Andy,
You have to consider that there are types of simulation which require the Alternate Solver always. E.g. lengthy power electronics simulations, which produce monster spikes with the normal solver every now and then. These monster spikes (10 or hundred times of the normal range) render the simulation useless - and you have to restart the simulation after 10 minutes or even longer waiting for the finish - what a waste of time.
So if the solver would be changed by default to the normal solver after each restart, this would be a constant source of time loss and annoyance.
Viele Grüße Heinz
On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 10:50 AM, Tony Casey wrote:
I try not to use the volatile CP settings precisely for that reason of vaguery. I would prefer all Control Panel settings to be remembered (and henceforth rarely touched) and run-by-run changes applied with directives. That way, I would always know the conditions for each run. ...
I want to bring up the Alternate Solver. That setting can only be changed in the Settings / Control Panel. And it is remembered from one run to the next. Ugh!
In my opinion, that's bad. Maybe it was necessary, but it's bad practice, IMO.
Even if it were possible to make that an .OPTIONS setting (Mike E. said it couldn't, but I'm sure it could if ADI wanted to make one), would you want LTspice to remember that setting from one run to the next? As a helper here in this group, you might run someone else's simulation which changes that setting, and now you may be stuck with it and not know it.
Frequently, I get caught by surprise when I changed to the Alternate solver, then later (maybe weeks later) I notice my simulation results do not look like someone else's, and the reason is the Alternate solver! I don't like that, I really don't like it. Sure, it's my fault that I chose the Alternate Solver, but sometimes I needed to so that I could run ONE PARTICULAR simulation, and then an hour or a day later I forget to change it back to Normal.
I also don't like the fact that LTspice announces the Alternate solver by hiding it in the bottom right corner of the screen where I never look. It should SCREAM "Alternate Solver", not whisper it. Remember that Flashing Red I mentioned yesterday? But that is another issue.
In traditional (Berkeley) SPICE, you knew exactly what you were getting because all the defaults were true defaults and everyone got them, every time. You had to set up any change you wanted, at the top of every simulation. I was used to doing that. All I needed was a simple .INC file to load my preferences. If I remember correctly, PSpice and HSPICE worked the same way too, but it's possible they have changed.
Andy
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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 02:29 PM, Heinz Lindenberger wrote:
You have to consider that there are types of simulation which require the Alternate Solver always.
Yes, of course I did consider that.
I think that, ideally, there ought to have been an .OPTIONS command that could enable the Alternate solver. You would put that on your schematics that need it, and then you would always get the Alternate solver with those simulations. But unfortunately there is no such .OPTION command, and so it needs to be set in the Settings / Control Panel.
I get it. But it's painful no matter how you arrange it. Like I wrote earlier, "Sometimes it's good if it remembers. Sometimes, maybe not so much."
Andy
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On 09/11/2024 20:28, Heinz Lindenberger
via groups.io wrote:
Even if it were possible to make that an .OPTIONS setting
(Mike E. said it couldn't, but I'm sure it could if ADI wanted
to make one), would you want LTspice to remember that setting
from one run to the next? As a helper here in this group, you
might run someone else's simulation which changes that setting,
and now you may be stuck with it and not know it.
Frequently, I get caught by surprise when I changed to the
Alternate solver, then later (maybe weeks later) I notice my
simulation results do not look like someone else's, and the
reason is the Alternate solver! I don't like that, I really
don't like it. Sure, it's my fault that I chose the Alternate
Solver, but sometimes I needed to so that I could run ONE
PARTICULAR simulation, and then an hour or a day later I forget
to change it back to Normal.
I absolutely agree with you there. I've been there and don't like
it. Which is why I would prefer:
.options Solver=Alt
..for schematics that require it. But sadly, it doesn't exist.
I find it difficult to believe that it would be impossible to create
it. But, as we know, once Mike had made a decision about something,
it was next to impossible to change it.
--
Regards,
Tony
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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 05:02 PM, Tony Casey wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that it would be impossible to create it. ...
The reason it doesn't exist, is that LTspice needs to know which solver to use, before parsing and compiling the netlist into code. But it doesn't know that until it parses the netlist, and then it's too late.
I'm sure it is possible to make a second pass when it encounters that .OPTION command. Mike E. didn't want to do that, and you're right that he could be stubborn. Maybe ADI can be convinced to change that. I can't imagine it adds more than a few dozen milliseconds to the total time, in those rare simulations where it needs to start over.
Andy
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But there is now an option to do just that.
.options solver="norm"
or
.options solver="alt"
Should have put that in the changelog.
Best Regards,
Mathias
On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 10:56 PM, Andy I wrote:
I think that, ideally, there ought to have been an .OPTIONS command that could enable the Alternate solver. You would put that on your schematics that need it, and then you would always get the Alternate solver with those simulations. But unfortunately there is no such .OPTION command, and so it needs to be set in the Settings / Control Panel.
I get it. But it's painful no matter how you arrange it. Like I wrote earlier, "Sometimes it's good if it remembers. Sometimes, maybe not so much."
Andy
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I have an issue with .plt files in LTspice 24.1 beta.
The .asc and .plt file that I just uploaded will work correctly in every released version of LTspice.
Files are "Switch_HYS_play.asc" and "Switch_HYS_play.plt".
LTspice 24.1 beta will either hang or crash when attempting to display the plot.
Can anyone explain this?
Thanks,
Mike
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Great!
--
Regards,
Tony
On 10/11/2024 13:13, Mathias Born via
groups.io wrote:
But there is now an option to do just that.
.options
solver="norm"
or
.options
solver="alt"
Should have put that in the changelog.
Best Regards,
Mathias
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On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 07:13 AM, Mathias Born wrote:
But there is now an option to do just that.
.options solver="norm"
or
.options solver="alt"
Nice!
So if I understand correctly, using ".options solver="alt"" switches one's LTspice to the Alternate solver, and it remains that way until it is changed back, right? In other words, it is "remembered" between program invocations, right?
Therefore, one could add ".options solver="alt"" to all simulations where the user wants the Alternate solver, and they could add ".options solver="norm"" to every simulation where they do not. (Not that everyone would do that - but it is the only way to be certain of which solver one is getting.)
Are the quotes not needed around "norm" and "alt"?
Should have put that in the changelog.
Can you add it to the changelog now?
Also, would you consider making the word "Alternate" stand out more, at the bottom status line of the screen? I would prefer flashing red, but others might not like the flashing part. I think it ought to be an attention-grabber.
Thanks,
Andy
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On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 07:32 AM, Mike Fraser wrote:
Files are "Switch_HYS_play.asc" and "Switch_HYS_play.plt".
Mike,
This does not affect the problem where LTspice Beta 24.1 hangs or crashes. But I noticed your eight .MEAS commands refer to I(RL), but there is no RL on your schematic. So, all eight .MEAS commands fail. That should show up only in the output .LOG file, and not affect plotting the waveforms. But I thought you should know this.
Andy
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Update to my file crashing issue.
The file "Switch_HYS_play.asc" contains the following instruction.
.opt numdgt=10
.opt measdgt=10
.opt plotwinsize=0
*.opt nomarch
When I disable ".opt numdgt=10", the file will run.
When ".opt numdgt=10" is enabled, the Output log states the following:
"numdgt can not be changed within the same .raw file."
This appears to be a undocumented or unintended change in LTspice 24.1.
Hopefully, someone at ADI will be able to shed some light on this numdgt problem.
Also, I made a typo in the 8 measure statements.
"V(Swin)/I(RL)" is a defective definition.
The correct definition is "V(Swin)/I(RL1)".
Mike
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Thanks a lot for reporting this. It's a simple bug; will be fixed in the next update.
That's why we have this beta testing. Unfortunately, our own test coverage is far from complete.
Best Regards,
Mathias
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No, an option like this in the schematic/netlist does not change the settings dialog nor does it alter the corresponding .ini file. It only has effect on that schematic/netlist. However, it has priority over all other methods of setting it.
Best Regards,
Mathias
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 03:03 PM, Andy I wrote:
So if I understand correctly, using ".options solver="alt"" switches one's LTspice to the Alternate solver, and it remains that way until it is changed back, right? In other words, it is "remembered" between program invocations, right?
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On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 09:29 AM, Mathias Born wrote:
No, an option like this in the schematic/netlist does not change the settings dialog nor does it alter the corresponding .ini file. It only has effect on that schematic/netlist. However, it has priority over all other methods of setting it.
Got it.
So if I understand correctly:
- It affects only that one simulation where that command appears.
- It does not affect subsequent simulations even while LTspice is still running.
Is that the idea?
Thanks,
Andy
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Yes, that's correct.
The intent is to enable you to run simulations with the settings you want without being affected by program wide defaults, which may differ between time and/or systems.
These global settings are helpful, but they shouldn't get in the way.
Best Regards,
Mathias
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 03:37 PM, Andy I wrote:
So if I understand correctly:
- It affects only that one simulation where that command appears.
- It does not affect subsequent simulations even while LTspice is still running.
Is that the idea?
Thanks,
Andy
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I’m presently using LTspice 17.1.14. I am concerned that transitioning to a later version might disrupt files that I depend on for 17.1.14. Can I install a newer version without disrupting the old? Is there a guide for transitioning smoothly? Thanks.
From: LTspice@groups.io <LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mathias Born via groups.io Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 7:13 AM To: LTspice@groups.io Subject: Re: [LTspice] LTspice 24.1 Beta Available Now But there is now an option to do just that. Should have put that in the changelog. On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 10:56 PM, Andy I wrote: I think that, ideally, there ought to have been an .OPTIONS command that could enable the Alternate solver. You would put that on your schematics that need it, and then you would always get the Alternate solver with those simulations. But unfortunately there is no such .OPTION command, and so it needs to be set in the Settings / Control Panel. I get it. But it's painful no matter how you arrange it. Like I wrote earlier, "Sometimes it's good if it remembers. Sometimes, maybe not so much."
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Tony Casey
eewiz