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Having difficulty setting signals for 3-way turnout

 

I am not able to set signal heads for a three way turnout. The three way is part of the entrance to a five track passenger terminal. Prior to this I was using SSL heads to indicate turnout positions (not prototypical) but it worked.

When using  < Tools >> Set Signal Heads at 3-Way Turnout > I run into the problem of the signal don’t seem to respond correctly to the turnout positions especially at the frog side of the turnouts. 

In the assignment entry form either there is an incorrect labeling of the fourth and sixth entries or I am not understanding what signal goes where? Both the fourth and sixth expect Diverging B signal. Shouldn’t one be labeled Diverging A?  Is it a bug or just me?  

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.11.1
- Java 17.0.11
 

John,

The 4th label should be "Diverging A"

Dave Sand
.

----- Original message -----
From: "John Bauchiero via groups.io" <john4dhmr=gmail.com@groups.io>
Subject: [jmriusers] Having difficulty setting signals for 3-way turnout
Date: Saturday, December 28, 2024 10:18 PM

I am not able to set signal heads for a three way turnout. The three way is part of the entrance to a five track passenger terminal. Prior to this I was using SSL heads to indicate turnout positions (not prototypical) but it worked.

When using  < Tools >> Set Signal Heads at 3-Way Turnout > I run into the problem of the signal don’t seem to respond correctly to the turnout positions especially at the frog side of the turnouts. 

In the assignment entry form either there is an incorrect labeling of the fourth and sixth entries or I am not understanding what signal goes where? Both the fourth and sixth expect Diverging B signal. Shouldn’t one be labeled Diverging A?  Is it a bug or just me?  

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.11.1
- Java 17.0.11
 

Thanks Dave,

I assumed that _but_ I don’t know if that fixes the total signal issue. I’ll get back to you on that. 

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.9.7, Java 17.0.12

On Dec 29, 2024, at 12:38 AM, Dave Sand via groups.io <ds@...> wrote:


John,

The 4th label should be "Diverging A"

Dave Sand
.

----- Original message -----
From: "John Bauchiero via groups.io" <john4dhmr=gmail.com@groups.io>
Subject: [jmriusers] Having difficulty setting signals for 3-way turnout
Date: Saturday, December 28, 2024 10:18 PM

I am not able to set signal heads for a three way turnout. The three way is part of the entrance to a five track passenger terminal. Prior to this I was using SSL heads to indicate turnout positions (not prototypical) but it worked.

When using  < Tools >> Set Signal Heads at 3-Way Turnout > I run into the problem of the signal don’t seem to respond correctly to the turnout positions especially at the frog side of the turnouts. 

In the assignment entry form either there is an incorrect labeling of the fourth and sixth entries or I am not understanding what signal goes where? Both the fourth and sixth expect Diverging B signal. Shouldn’t one be labeled Diverging A?  Is it a bug or just me?  

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.11.1
- Java 17.0.11

<Screenshot 2024-12-28 at 10.51.55 PM.png>
 

Just out of curiosity....
 
Is there a reason to use a three-way switch function and not simply two switches?
 
The latter is how I've seen it work in prototype situations, from hand throws to CTC. (Except for one three-way stub switch, but that line didn't exacly employ signals.)
 
Cheers,
/ Bruce /
 
 

Bruce,

John is using signal heads and SSL.  SSL is tied to turnouts, not blocks.  This makes SSL complicated when you want to treat two turnouts as a three-way for signaling purposes.

Layout Editor has a set of tools that overcome the SSL limitations for three-ways, crossovers, slips, etc.  The tools create internal sensors and Logix to supplement the SSL.

Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: "Bruce A. Metcalf" <railroad@...>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Having difficulty setting signals for 3-way turnout
Date: Sunday, December 29, 2024 11:23 AM

Just out of curiosity....
 
Is there a reason to use a three-way switch function and not simply two switches?
 
The latter is how I've seen it work in prototype situations, from hand throws to CTC. (Except for one three-way stub switch, but that line didn't exacly employ signals.)
 
Cheers,
/ Bruce /
 
 

Bruce,
 
Legitimet curiosity.  Dave said it better than I could have. To my knowledge the 3-way tool is fairly new, it was there and wanted to try it. No other reason since I had SSL working just fine. 

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.11.1
- Java 17.0.11

On Dec 29, 2024, at 12:23 PM, Bruce A. Metcalf via groups.io <railroad@...> wrote:

Just out of curiosity....
 
Is there a reason to use a three-way switch function and not simply two switches?
 
The latter is how I've seen it work in prototype situations, from hand throws to CTC. (Except for one three-way stub switch, but that line didn't exacly employ signals.)
 
Cheers,
/ Bruce /
 
 

Dave, 

As an updated note. I’m was getting closer to making the 3-Way work. I had the signal heads on the panel but could not set up the SSL rules.  Hence the signals around the 3-way are Dark. 

It appears it is required to assign blocks and sensors for the tool’s SSL rules processing. Since there isn’t any panel turnout object for a 3-way turnout, one is created by joining two turnout with a track segment. Caveat: If the two turnouts are collapsed to make the 3-way before assigning a block to the connecting track segment it results in delete and start over. Being a single ended terminal I didn’t want to assign either, so I created my own SSL logic instead. 

Conclusion. I used the tool only for setting the signal icons but manually set the SSL rules (by trial and error) for signal control. It was more work than I anticipated but looks nice now that it it done.

Thanks for your help. I'll write to the developers for a correction the 3-way setup form. 

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.11.1
- Java 17.0.11

On Dec 29, 2024, at 12:46 AM, John Bauchiero via groups.io <john4dhmr@...> wrote:

Thanks Dave,

I assumed that _but_ I don’t know if that fixes the total signal issue. I’ll get back to you on that. 

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.9.7, Java 17.0.12

On Dec 29, 2024, at 12:38 AM, Dave Sand via groups.io <ds@...> wrote:


John,

The 4th label should be "Diverging A"

Dave Sand
.

----- Original message -----
From: "John Bauchiero via groups.io" <john4dhmr=gmail.com@groups.io>
Subject: [jmriusers] Having difficulty setting signals for 3-way turnout
Date: Saturday, December 28, 2024 10:18 PM

I am not able to set signal heads for a three way turnout. The three way is part of the entrance to a five track passenger terminal. Prior to this I was using SSL heads to indicate turnout positions (not prototypical) but it worked.

When using  < Tools >> Set Signal Heads at 3-Way Turnout > I run into the problem of the signal don’t seem to respond correctly to the turnout positions especially at the frog side of the turnouts. 

In the assignment entry form either there is an incorrect labeling of the fourth and sixth entries or I am not understanding what signal goes where? Both the fourth and sixth expect Diverging B signal. Shouldn’t one be labeled Diverging A?  Is it a bug or just me?  

John  Bauchiero
- NCE PH-Pro & PowerCab, Pi4, DCC-EX
- JMRI 5.11.1
- Java 17.0.11

<Screenshot 2024-12-28 at 10.51.55 PM.png>

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