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I'm looking for recommendations for a commercial transceiver to use for amateur data communications at VHF (144-146 MHz). Some APRS, VARA FM, and probably other data uses as well. Basically I'm looking for a 10W+ radio with flat audio input and flat audio output. If the radio also offers pre and de emphasis audio ports then so much the better.
I've seen here several people offer praise for the Motorola CDM1250, which looks great to me because of the 20 pin accessory jack on the back, using a readily available connector housing and pins ( https://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/cdm/cdm-acc-conn.html ). I see the CDM1250 on ebay for $100 to $125 (and more, of course).
In reading the comments of others on this forum, trying to educate myself about this radio, it looks like if they are ever programmed for narrow band operation, that that's one-way street and there is no field programming that can restore them to standard (5 kHz deviation) bandwidth.
So my questions to the cognoscenti of this group are:
1. If I buy a CDM1250 off ebay, I guess I only have the seller's assurance that the radio is still standard bandwidth. And if he doesn't know the bandwidth status, to stay away from it. Although, transmitting data tones at 2.5 kHz doesn't seem to be significantly worse than TXing with 3.3 kHz deviation. Any thoughts on that?
2. How do I get the Motorola CDM1250 programmed? Is this something I can do myself with common tools (like free SW from the internet and a USB to Serial UART TTL converter) or would I need to take this to a Motorola shop near me and pay for programming? Or is this radio model so old that most commercial shops are no longer going to have tools to program it?
3. Are there Kenwood or other radios that might also be a good match for use as a VHF data transceiver?
I'd be grateful for any comments people here would care to offer.
Paul Newland, ad7i
Middletown NJ
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Paul,
I'll answer your question #3.
Consider a Yaesu FTM-6000. This radio is a proven performer for
digital data communications and has top speed capability with VARA
FM Wide. A cable that avoids the proprietary CT-164 adapter to
connect this radio (and most other Yaesu FTM radios) to a
Mini-DIN-6 equipped sound card is available
here.
Kevin W3KKC
On 12/29/2024 6:37 PM, ad7i RADIO via groups.io wrote:
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I'm looking
for recommendations for a commercial transceiver to use for
amateur data communications at VHF (144-146 MHz). Some APRS,
VARA FM, and probably other data uses as well. Basically I'm
looking for a 10W+ radio with flat audio input and flat audio
output. If the radio also offers pre and de emphasis audio
ports then so much the better.
I've seen
here several people offer praise for the Motorola
CDM1250, which looks great to me because of the 20 pin
accessory jack on the back, using a readily available
connector housing and pins ( https://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/cdm/cdm-acc-conn.html
). I see the CDM1250
on ebay for $100 to $125 (and more, of course).
In reading
the comments of others on this forum, trying to educate myself
about this radio, it looks like if they are ever programmed
for narrow band operation, that that's one-way street and
there is no field programming that can restore them to
standard (5 kHz deviation) bandwidth.
So my
questions to the cognoscenti of this group are:
1. If I buy
a CDM1250
off ebay, I guess I only have the seller's assurance that the
radio is still standard bandwidth. And if he doesn't know the
bandwidth status, to stay away from it. Although,
transmitting data tones at 2.5 kHz doesn't seem to be
significantly worse than TXing with 3.3 kHz deviation. Any
thoughts on that?
2. How do I
get the Motorola
CDM1250 programmed? Is this something I can do
myself with common tools (like free SW from the internet and a
USB to Serial UART TTL converter) or would I need to take this
to a Motorola shop near me and pay for programming? Or is
this radio model so old that most commercial shops are no
longer going to have tools to program it?
3. Are there
Kenwood or other radios that might also be a good match for
use as a VHF data transceiver?
I'd be
grateful for any comments people here would care to offer.
Paul Newland,
ad7i
Middletown NJ
|
Paul,
I'll answer your question #3.
Consider a Yaesu FTM-6000. This radio is a proven performer for
digital data communications and has top speed capability with VARA
FM Wide. A cable that avoids the proprietary CT-164 adapter to
connect this radio (and most other Yaesu FTM radios) to a
Mini-DIN-6 equipped sound card is available
here.
Kevin W3KKC
Kevin,
Does your cable and the FTM-6000 provide access to non-emphasis "9600" capable signal paths?
John, kx4o
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On 12/29/2024 7:02 PM, John Huggins via
groups.io wrote:
Paul,
I'll answer your question #3.
Consider a Yaesu FTM-6000. This radio is a proven
performer for digital data communications and has top
speed capability with VARA FM Wide. A cable that avoids
the proprietary CT-164 adapter to connect this radio
(and most other Yaesu FTM radios) to a Mini-DIN-6
equipped sound card is available here.
Kevin W3KKC
Kevin,
Does your cable and the FTM-6000 provide access to
non-emphasis "9600" capable signal paths?
John, kx4o
John,
Yes - both the radio and the cable.
It actually provides access and capability to both 1200 and
9600 type audio, allowing selection of either to be done at the
sound card (radio interface).
Kevin
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Kenwood TK-790 has this capability also
On 12/29/2024 7:02 PM, John Huggins via
groups.io wrote:
Paul,
I'll answer your question #3.
Consider a Yaesu FTM-6000. This radio is a proven
performer for digital data communications and has top
speed capability with VARA FM Wide. A cable that avoids
the proprietary CT-164 adapter to connect this radio
(and most other Yaesu FTM radios) to a Mini-DIN-6
equipped sound card is available here.
Kevin W3KKC
Kevin,
Does your cable and the FTM-6000 provide access to
non-emphasis "9600" capable signal paths?
John, kx4o
John,
Yes - both the radio and the cable.
It actually provides access and capability to both 1200 and
9600 type audio, allowing selection of either to be done at the
sound card (radio interface).
Kevin
-- John Kreno
The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either—but right through every human heart—and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained. And even in the best of all hearts, there remains … an unuprooted small corner of evil. - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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On 12/29/2024 7:17 PM, John N3XKD via
groups.io wrote:
Kenwood TK-790 has this capability also
There are lots of radios that have that capability - both commercial
and amateur. Commercial radios are generally not as easy to connect
to "modems" "TNC's" and "Sound Cards" because of needing to make a
cable or buying a (sometimes expensive) pre-made one. Some amateur
radios have a dedicated "data" port to connect accessories like
these - easily.
Here's a list of amateur radios with a
dedicated "data" port.
Specialized adapters and interfaces are available for some
commercial radios to make the connection easy with inexpensive
pre-made cables. The Motorola-16,
Kenwood-25,
Bridgecom
BCM-6, and Alinco-6
(from yours truly) are some of them, and the RIM-Lite
is available from Scott.
Kevin
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busy busy busy Kevin !
We're still waiting for Santa - they say the bitchy is too hot to land.
His Sleigh might not slide & Rudolph has taken the girls to the south pole till the country cools down.
Meantime the Indians and Aussies are braving the Summer sun at the MCG (The G for anyone else) but I seem to think the Canadians do play cricket.
Can I wish everyone a happy and prosperous 2025
Cheers n beers
John @ 6163 - where the rain forest meets the GBR
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Thank you Kevin. I appreciate your suggestion. The ham rigs like the FTM-6000 do offer both front panel programming and PC programming, which is very convenient.
Paul, ad7i
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I run both FTM-6000R and CDM1250 options. If you want “hassle free” programming, and the 6000 meets your needs, it is a decent option. CDMs are excellent performers though and are “cheap,” with typical costs for VHF or UHF at ~$100. If you don’t mind rolling your own connector or you choose a RIM-Maxtrac, interfacing is easy. The hoop to CDMs is programming. While the software is readily available, you do need to run it on “older” Windows. I do this via a virtual machine, some have older laptops. I have two complaints with the 6000s. One is the din connector. It doesn’t have positive retention. In locations that have any vibration at all, it can wiggle out. The other is the slide mount bracket. I’ve taken to drilling and tapping the chassis to use old style mounts, or, to use in a Samlex enclosure. The mounting bracket isn’t too popular with users in my area. I’ve “fixed” at least a dozen of them. I do wish it was “more” optional. Matt AL0R
From: repeater-builder@groups.io <repeater-builder@groups.io> On Behalf Of ad7i RADIO via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2024 07:40
To: repeater-builder@groups.io
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Looking for recommendations for Commercial Transceivers for VHF data communications (APRS, VARA FM, etc) Thank you Kevin. I appreciate your suggestion. The ham rigs like the FTM-6000 do offer both front panel programming and PC programming, which is very convenient.
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Another good direction is any of the Kenwood NXDN radios-look for a model that beings with NX-.
They can be programmed to run data at I think up to 9600 baud using the Nexedge format. Pretty much just correct programming and connect to the D connector on the rear.
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On Sunday, December 29, 2024 at 06:37:57 PM EST, ad7i RADIO via groups.io <ad7iradio@...> wrote:
I can't speak on the CDM 1250 but as one who has used Icom commercial radios in the EMCOMM ARENA I have found them to be robust and will do the 5khz bandwidth as well as narrowband if you need it. I currently have 3 Icom F-121's for packet digipeaters in Florida and they work very well. Icoms have an internal plug inside that use the OPC 617 cable available on EBAY. I am currently setting up a Kenwood TK-7180 as an Allstar Node as it and the TK-8180 UHF version have a DB25 on the back of them touring out what is needed for the soundcard you may be using for VARAFM.
Les Keegan N4LPK
I'm looking for recommendations for a commercial transceiver to use for amateur data communications at VHF (144-146 MHz). Some APRS, VARA FM, and probably other data uses as well. Basically I'm looking for a 10W+ radio with flat audio input and flat audio output. If the radio also offers pre and de emphasis audio ports then so much the better.
I've seen here several people offer praise for the Motorola CDM1250, which looks great to me because of the 20 pin accessory jack on the back, using a readily available connector housing and pins ( https://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/cdm/cdm-acc-conn.html ). I see the CDM1250 on ebay for $100 to $125 (and more, of course).
In reading the comments of others on this forum, trying to educate myself about this radio, it looks like if they are ever programmed for narrow band operation, that that's one-way street and there is no field programming that can restore them to standard (5 kHz deviation) bandwidth.
So my questions to the cognoscenti of this group are:
1. If I buy a CDM1250 off ebay, I guess I only have the seller's assurance that the radio is still standard bandwidth. And if he doesn't know the bandwidth status, to stay away from it. Although, transmitting data tones at 2.5 kHz doesn't seem to be significantly worse than TXing with 3.3 kHz deviation. Any thoughts on that?
2. How do I get the Motorola CDM1250 programmed? Is this something I can do myself with common tools (like free SW from the internet and a USB to Serial UART TTL converter) or would I need to take this to a Motorola shop near me and pay for programming? Or is this radio model so old that most commercial shops are no longer going to have tools to program it?
3. Are there Kenwood or other radios that might also be a good match for use as a VHF data transceiver?
I'd be grateful for any comments people here would care to offer.
Paul Newland, ad7i
Middletown NJ
|
Hello Matt --
Thank you for your comments. One of the things that draws me to the CDM1250, beside it being a commercial quality radio, full featured I/O jack and relatively low price, is the challenge of programming the radio. From what I've read it sounds very do-able, but not necessarily "easy". I'm not one for spending a lot of time trying to push on a rope, but if I can learn how to program the radio using a home-brew cable for programming, then that would be a good learning experience for me, and I'd have a nice, cheap, radio falling out of that process.
I have a bit experience with USB to Serial UART TTL converters, mostly doing designs using the CH340C for UPDI programming on AVR microcontrollers. In reading the service manual for the CDM1250 it looks like the programming is done via half duplex serial UART format signal on mic jack BUS+ lead, referenced to GND, which is similar to UPDI programming (which is also half-duplex on the same signal lead). I realize that one can buy pre-made cables for programming the CDMs, but I'd like to start by rolling my own. If I can't get that to work I figure I can fall back to a pre-made programming cable.
Based on your comments, this morning I put the CPS R06.12.05-AZ-PMVN4034AA program on an XP laptop and connected it to one of my UPDI Half-Duplex programmers. I was able to see that the CPS could send data out the serial port (9600 bps, 8N1), specifically a four byte string consisting of 0xF2 , 0x23, 0x05 and 0xE5. It would then timeout in about 2 seconds and an error message would appear on the screen because it didn't get a response back from the radio, since I don't have a radio.
I'll continue my investigation, but this path looks pretty promising. Thanks again for your comments.
Paul, ad7i
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You are indeed on the right track, especially the CPS you chose. .05 was the last wide band without entitlement version. .09 also works, but you need an entitlement if you need to set any channels wide. Waris has a good deal of info on CDMs. Cables are cheap if and when you need to go that route. Matt AL0R
From: repeater-builder@groups.io <repeater-builder@groups.io> On Behalf Of ad7i RADIO via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2024 12:38
To: repeater-builder@groups.io
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Looking for recommendations for Commercial Transceivers for VHF data communications (APRS, VARA FM, etc) Thank you for your comments. One of the things that draws me to the CDM1250, beside it being a commercial quality radio, full featured I/O jack and relatively low price, is the challenge of programming the radio. From what I've read it sounds very do-able, but not necessarily "easy". I'm not one for spending a lot of time trying to push on a rope, but if I can learn how to program the radio using a home-brew cable for programming, then that would be a good learning experience for me, and I'd have a nice, cheap, radio falling out of that process. I have a bit experience with USB to Serial UART TTL converters, mostly doing designs using the CH340C for UPDI programming on AVR microcontrollers. In reading the service manual for the CDM1250 it looks like the programming is done via half duplex serial UART format signal on mic jack BUS+ lead, referenced to GND, which is similar to UPDI programming (which is also half-duplex on the same signal lead). I realize that one can buy pre-made cables for programming the CDMs, but I'd like to start by rolling my own. If I can't get that to work I figure I can fall back to a pre-made programming cable. Based on your comments, this morning I put the CPS R06.12.05-AZ-PMVN4034AA program on an XP laptop and connected it to one of my UPDI Half-Duplex programmers. I was able to see that the CPS could send data out the serial port (9600 bps, 8N1), specifically a four byte string consisting of 0xF2 , 0x23, 0x05 and 0xE5. It would then timeout in about 2 seconds and an error message would appear on the screen because it didn't get a response back from the radio, since I don't have a radio. I'll continue my investigation, but this path looks pretty promising. Thanks again for your comments.
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John, I have a friend with a boatload of Tait 8000 series radios on different bands but especially VHF including some without the control head configured as “Data” radios that have or have had a TNC connected. They make great radios for a project you have.
He is in the Fresno area of California, his name is Knox LaRue (209) 609-5627, he said it was OK to post his number.
I have them on VHF 150, 220 and UHF, great radio.
On Dec 29, 2024, at 16:02, John Huggins via groups.io <john.huggins.ee@...> wrote:
This Message is From an External Sender
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Paul,
I'll answer your question #3.
Consider a Yaesu FTM-6000. This radio is a proven performer for digital data communications and has top speed capability with VARA FM Wide. A cable that avoids the proprietary CT-164 adapter to connect this radio (and most other Yaesu FTM radios) to a Mini-DIN-6
equipped sound card is
available here.
Kevin W3KKC
Kevin,
Does your cable and the FTM-6000 provide access to non-emphasis "9600" capable signal paths?
John, kx4o
WARNING: Do not click links or attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the email is safe.
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At 12/30/2024 10:38 AM, you wrote:
Hello Matt --
Based on your
comments, this morning I put the CPS R06.12.05-AZ-PMVN4034AA program on
an XP laptop and connected it to one of my UPDI Half-Duplex
programmers. I was able to see that the CPS could send data out the
serial port (9600 bps, 8N1), specifically a four byte string consisting
of 0xF2 , 0x23, 0x05 and 0xE5. It would then timeout in about 2
seconds and an error message would appear on the screen because it didn't
get a response back from the radio, since I don't have a
radio.
I've run that version of Pro CPS on my Windows 10 laptop to program
CDM1550s with no problems.
Bob NO6B
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Thank you Jim Barbour for your suggestion about the Kenwood NX radios. I'll take a look at them. For data communications are they limited to Nexedge format? Or is that just the modem that comes with the radio ? Can I bypass that and use my own modem via the accessory jack?
Greetings Bob Dengler. Thanks for that feedback. I'll try the CPS program on my W10 computer. I appreciate the pointer.
73, Paul, ad7i
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I've used Midland LMR Syntech II and XTRs as packet, etc. radios......the programming software is pubic domain, they are easy to move to the 2m ham band if a B range (A range is perfect!) but they do not have the accessory jacks like KW, Motorola, etc....ehhh not a big deal to me...the tap points are easily available...the radios are all over ebay, etc for $50-75. Great receivers in them and you can probably run 9600 baud using discriminator out and direct to the modulator...I made a GE MVP run 9600 on UHF (modified the exciter for FM) so the Midlands being true FM radios should be a snap.....They are wideband (25kHz channels) already.....I THINK the Titans went NB but they can do WB as well...I never dealt with the Titans personally, though they are getting plentiful on the used market as well.
My $0.02
Chris WB5ITT
I'm looking for recommendations for a commercial transceiver to use for amateur data communications at VHF (144-146 MHz). Some APRS, VARA FM, and probably other data uses as well. Basically I'm looking for a 10W+ radio with flat audio input and flat audio output. If the radio also offers pre and de emphasis audio ports then so much the better.
I've seen here several people offer praise for the Motorola CDM1250, which looks great to me because of the 20 pin accessory jack on the back, using a readily available connector housing and pins ( https://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/cdm/cdm-acc-conn.html ). I see the CDM1250 on ebay for $100 to $125 (and more, of course).
In reading the comments of others on this forum, trying to educate myself about this radio, it looks like if they are ever programmed for narrow band operation, that that's one-way street and there is no field programming that can restore them to standard (5 kHz deviation) bandwidth.
So my questions to the cognoscenti of this group are:
1. If I buy a CDM1250 off ebay, I guess I only have the seller's assurance that the radio is still standard bandwidth. And if he doesn't know the bandwidth status, to stay away from it. Although, transmitting data tones at 2.5 kHz doesn't seem to be significantly worse than TXing with 3.3 kHz deviation. Any thoughts on that?
2. How do I get the Motorola CDM1250 programmed? Is this something I can do myself with common tools (like free SW from the internet and a USB to Serial UART TTL converter) or would I need to take this to a Motorola shop near me and pay for programming? Or is this radio model so old that most commercial shops are no longer going to have tools to program it?
3. Are there Kenwood or other radios that might also be a good match for use as a VHF data transceiver?
I'd be grateful for any comments people here would care to offer.
Paul Newland, ad7i
Middletown NJ
|
ad7i RADIO
Kevin Custer
Hudson, John@CalOES
Chris Boone WB5ITT