I have 2 Sony devices that I'm trying to control using the Control S
input jacks on the rear, a VCR and a DVD player.

Using some of Crestron's drivers, I'm able to get some level of
control, but have a few problems:

1) I need some functions that are available on my units that aren't in
the Crestron database. I used a CNXLIR to learn these functions from
the remote and then used the Control S utility in WinDeal to convert
them to Control S codes (or at least that's my understanding of how
this should work). None of the codes learned in this manner work
reliably - they usually require many attempts to get the DVD player to
respond (haven't tried this method with the VCR yet).

2) Some functions on the DVD player don't respond until I press the
button on the touchpanel twice. Changing the repeat count in the
driver doesn't seem to improve this.

3) Some functions on the VCR behave like I pressed the button on the
touchpanel twice. For example, pressing channel down causes the VCR
to go down 2 channels rather than 1. Again, changing the repeat count
in the driver doesn't seem to improve this.

The VCR is a Sony SLV-R1000 and the DVD player is a DVP-S330.

Any of you guys have any ideas where to go here? The last resort is
to go back to using IR emitters...
--
Geoffrey Reynolds

greynolds@... wrote:

From: greynolds@...

I have 2 Sony devices that I'm trying to control using the Control S
input jacks on the rear, a VCR and a DVD player.

Using some of Crestron's drivers, I'm able to get some level of
control, but have a few problems:

So you stripped the carrier from the code?

Did you use the diode clipping circuit in the cable?

(Crestron cable #CNSP-122)

Kml
===================================================
K.M.Lijewski If you think
716-645-5910 education is
Lijewski@... expensive . . .
University at Buffalo
24 Capen Hall wait 'til you see
Amherst, NY 14260 what ignorance costs!
===================================================

Kevin,

Thanks for the response. See my answers below...

greynolds@... wrote:

(Crestron cable #CNSP-122)

No, I didn't use this. Is it known whether this cable will allow me
to split it's output to multiple Control S devices?

No, I don't know if this can be split, but you could try.
Kml


--
===================================================
K.M.Lijewski If you think
716-645-5910 education is
Lijewski@... expensive . . .
University at Buffalo
24 Capen Hall wait 'til you see
Amherst, NY 14260 what ignorance costs!
===================================================

On Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:42:44 -0500, you wrote:

From: "Lijewski, Kevin" <lijewski@...>

greynolds@... wrote:

(Crestron cable #CNSP-122)

No, I didn't use this. Is it known whether this cable will allow me
to split it's output to multiple Control S devices?

No, I don't know if this can be split, but you could try.
Kml

I called Crestron on Thursday, but forgot to ask them if this could be
split. I asked about the Control S cable. It simply has a diode
(1N914) connecting the ground to the tip at the Control S end. They
faxed me a diagram, which indicates that the cable should be 10 feet
(no mention as to why).

My current status with the Control S stuff is this:

VCR - I learned all functions from the remote that came with the VCR
(I had been using a driver from the Crestron DB), stripped the carrier
frequency and all functions work perfectly.

DVD - I did the same as with the VCR and have poor results. Both
drivers use a repeat value of 4. The commands work, but only after a
random number of button presses. Sometimes pressing a button once
works, or it can take up to 5 or 6. Using the driver with an IR
emitter before stripping the carrier frequency worked fine. Do any of
you on the list have a Sony DVD player and the required Control S
cable? If so, would you be willing to give my driver a test run (only
need to try a few functions)? What's interesting is that the discrete
power functions (power on, power off) that Crestron came up with in
Control S format work just fine... Unfortunately, it's hard for me to
determine if my driver is bad or if there's something wrong with the
DVD player...

If someone can help me out here, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Geoffrey Reynolds

greynolds@... wrote:

I called Crestron on Thursday, but forgot to ask them if this could be
split. I asked about the Control S cable. It simply has a diode
(1N914) connecting the ground to the tip at the Control S end. They
faxed me a diagram, which indicates that the cable should be 10 feet
(no mention as to why).

10 ft is too long if the cable is high capacitance and shielded. Cat 5 cable
works for 50 ft in most cases (USTP).

My current status with the Control S stuff is this:
VCR - I learned . . . work perfectly.
DVD - I did the same as with the VCR and have poor results.

I haven't tried this with a DVD player yet, so I am not sure. It's too bad
Sony doesn't make these files available. I have found that reversing the
diode sometimes works (though I have no idea why).

Kml
--
===================================================
K.M.Lijewski If you think
716-645-5910 education is
Lijewski@... expensive . . .
University at Buffalo
24 Capen Hall wait 'til you see
Amherst, NY 14260 what ignorance costs!
===================================================

Just to update you all on this problem:

This is a long post, but there IS an answer to my problem contained in
here that some of you may find useful, so please bear with me...

Crestron support turned out not to be helpful on this. In email, the
support person I was working with made it clear that he (or Crestron
in general) doesn't understand the terminology Sony uses (Control S,
Control A1, Control L, S-Link, etc.). I also got the impression that
he was trying to find a loophole that would get him out of having to
help me, as he seemed pleased with himself by telling me that my DVD
player had S-Link, rather than Control S. For those who aren't
familiar, here's the low down on Sony's various (and somewhat
confusing) protocols:

1) Control S:

This format is used on video components (VCR's, DVD's, LaserDisc's,
etc.) and is a one way control protocol. The commands are identical
to the original IR commands, but with the carrier frequency removed.
Sony components with jacks labeled "Control S" or "Control S In" use
this format. Some components (receivers, preamps, and TV's) have
ports labeled "Control S Out" and can control components with "Control
S" or "Control S In" ports.

2) Control A1:

This format is used on audio components (CD players, etc.) and is a 2
way control protocol, allowing a CD player to tell the control system
when a song has finished and loads of other useful information (such
as information about CD's - song lists, etc.). The command format,
while known by people outside of Sony is not as simple as simply
removing the carrier frequency.

3) Control L:

This is used to synchronize 2 VCR's or a VCR and a camcorder. There
doesn't seem to be much info about this on the net, but it is a 2 way
protocol and seems to only show up on some video components.

4) S-Link:

Simply a marketing scheme by Sony which causes far more confusion than
(I hope) they intended. S-Link components can have Control S and/or
Control A1 ports (receivers and preamps will have both), but S-Link
itself is not a protocol.

Anyway, I ended up figuring out enough about the Crestron IR file
format to resolve the problem on my own. The plus side is that if I
find new Sony commands for my components that aren't included on the
remote, I now know how to add the to the driver file. The downside is
that I spent most of the weekend figuring out how to and actually
doing the work...

The problem came down to this:

The Control S power on/power off commands (which have worked fine on
my DVD player from day 1) represented "on" patterns with 21h and "off"
patterns with 11h. The drivers learned from the remote represented
"on" patterns with 10h and "off" patterns with 00h. Other than that,
the header info for each function was different. What I did was
create copies of the power on command and change the function codes to
correspond to the various functions supported by my player (determined
by the functions learned from the remote). Ultimately, I ended up
with a Control S driver that works with my DVD player. I also cleaned
up the power off command, which had a bunch of garbage data before the
correct pattern.

Further, I figured out additional commands that my VCR supports -
discrete input selection for the 3 A/V inputs for VTR1 and VTR3 modes
(these aren't supported on VTR2 for some reason).

I also have discrete input selection commands for current JVC VCR's.

All in a weekend's work... :)

Anyway, if any of you are interested in a Sony Control S driver for a
DVD player, or a Sony VCR driver (VTR1, VTR2, VTR3 both Control S and
IR, tested on a SLVR1000), let me know. I'd be glad to send you a
copy.

Is my experience with Crestron support typical, or am I getting
"special" treatment because I'm not a dealer? So far, I've ended up
having to solve just about everything on my own - mostly for stuff
that I would think they should know. Quite frankly, if they're going
to supply a Control S filter in DEAL, they should know how it works
and what component types it should work with. I'm really please with
the Crestron equipment, but far less than please with the level of
support I have received from them over that past year - and it's not
like I'm calling them everyday with a stupid question I should have
known from reading the (VERY limited) documentation.

Thanks for letting me vent :).

On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 01:06:06 GMT, greynolds@... wrote:

I called Crestron on Thursday, but forgot to ask them if this could be
split. I asked about the Control S cable. It simply has a diode
(1N914) connecting the ground to the tip at the Control S end. They
faxed me a diagram, which indicates that the cable should be 10 feet
(no mention as to why).

My current status with the Control S stuff is this:

VCR - I learned all functions from the remote that came with the VCR
(I had been using a driver from the Crestron DB), stripped the carrier
frequency and all functions work perfectly.

DVD - I did the same as with the VCR and have poor results. Both
drivers use a repeat value of 4. The commands work, but only after a
random number of button presses. Sometimes pressing a button once
works, or it can take up to 5 or 6. Using the driver with an IR
emitter before stripping the carrier frequency worked fine. Do any of
you on the list have a Sony DVD player and the required Control S
cable? If so, would you be willing to give my driver a test run (only
need to try a few functions)? What's interesting is that the discrete
power functions (power on, power off) that Crestron came up with in
Control S format work just fine... Unfortunately, it's hard for me to
determine if my driver is bad or if there's something wrong with the
DVD player...

--
Geoffrey Reynolds