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Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me to a more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

Thanks
 

Try the ham-antennas group.

DaveD

On Feb 2, 2021, at 08:04, brown.beard.2020@... wrote:

Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me to a more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

Thanks
 

On 2/2/21 5:04 AM, brown.beard.2020@... wrote:
Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me to a more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

That's the ISM frequencies just below the amateur radio 20 meter band, so anything that works for 14 MHz (20m) will probably work just fine for 13.56 MHz.

In general, 31 mix is a good choice for HF - it's suitably lossy at those frequencies.  You might check out K9YC's choke cookbooks and other writeups..

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

You're presumably at low power for something like a badge reader, so you probably aren't as interested in low loss transmitter designs.


http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

*RFI, Ferrites, and Common Mode Chokes For Hams <http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf>**Most recent update April 2019.*This tutorial is directed specifically to RFI in ham radio applications. It includes an extended discussion of the use of common mode chokes in antenna systems and for suppression of RFI. A chapter on audio and computer interconnections in ham stations shows how to make bulletproof connections between a computer sound card and ham rigs for SSB, RTTY, PSK31, and SO2R contesting without expensive interface boxes, using nothing more than simple cables with the right connectors on each end. There's also a chapter on grounding and bonding.

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
This is a new applications note summarizing my work on *Chokes and Transformers For Receiving Antennas. <http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf>**NEW!*October 2018
 

@brown.beard.2020:

A ferrite core may stop noise and interference leaking into the cable, but not that picked by the antenna itself (which will likely be your biggest problem). For this you'll need an actual bandpass filter, which is not hard to do at 13.5 MHz if you have access to a soldering iron and some hand tools.
First you need a design, which I already did for you using one of the many available online tools:

You connect one side to the antenna and the other to the device. You can buy the components from online retailers such as Newark, Digi-Key or Mouser for about $10. To build the filter you don't need a PCB; you can simply use a strip of copper or tin, and solder the components using the dead bug construction technique. You can even use an Altoids tin, which also gives you an enclosure. The lower continuous wire in the diagram represents the copper strip or tin box, which is your "ground plane".
Maybe not as simple as a ferrite core but definitely more effective.

On Tuesday, February 2, 2021, 08:55:05 a.m. EST, brown.beard.2020@... <brown.beard.2020@...> wrote:

Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me to a more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

Thanks

1612286681254blob.jpg

 

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 05:54 AM, <brown.beard.2020@...> wrote:

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to add a
ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out any
noise coming from the environment.

It isn't clear to me what the situation is here. Do you mean you have an antenna connected to a 13.56 MHz signal coming from a signal generator or transmitter of some sort, and you wish to transmit that13.56 MHz signal? Or, you have an antenna you are using to receive a 13.56 MHz signal, and you would like to prevent interference picked up by the transmission line from being brought into the shack? Or you have something else (NOT 13.56 MHz) you are trying to receive and the 13.56 MHz signal is interfering with it? Please clarify.
 

13.56 MHz is an ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) frequency. There
are 7 frequencies allocated by the FCC for that purpose in that specific
ISM band - in a NON_RADIATIVE MANNER. Why are you connecting an antenna to
a 13.56 MHz source?

Most of the MetCal soldering stations operate on 13.56 MHz.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:57 PM Jim Allyn - N7JA <jim@...>
wrote:

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 05:54 AM, <brown.beard.2020@...> wrote:

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to
add a
ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out
any
noise coming from the environment.

It isn't clear to me what the situation is here. Do you mean you have an
antenna connected to a 13.56 MHz signal coming from a signal generator or
transmitter of some sort, and you wish to transmit that13.56 MHz signal?
Or, you have an antenna you are using to receive a 13.56 MHz signal, and
you would like to prevent interference picked up by the transmission line
from being brought into the shack? Or you have something else (NOT 13.56
MHz) you are trying to receive and the 13.56 MHz signal is interfering with
it? Please clarify.





--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*
 

Probably has nothing to do with his use, but 13.56 MHz and surrounding
frequencies on shortwave are the homes of many unlicensed CW beacons. Many
are "squarers."

Zack W9SZ

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jim Lux <jim@...> wrote:

On 2/2/21 5:04 AM, brown.beard.2020@... wrote:
Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me to a
more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to
add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter
out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

That's the ISM frequencies just below the amateur radio 20 meter band,
so anything that works for 14 MHz (20m) will probably work just fine for
13.56 MHz.

In general, 31 mix is a good choice for HF - it's suitably lossy at
those frequencies. You might check out K9YC's choke cookbooks and other
writeups..

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

You're presumably at low power for something like a badge reader, so you
probably aren't as interested in low loss transmitter designs.


http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

*RFI, Ferrites, and Common Mode Chokes For Hams
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf>**Most recent update April
2019.*This tutorial is directed specifically to RFI in ham radio
applications. It includes an extended discussion of the use of common
mode chokes in antenna systems and for suppression of RFI. A chapter on
audio and computer interconnections in ham stations shows how to make
bulletproof connections between a computer sound card and ham rigs for
SSB, RTTY, PSK31, and SO2R contesting without expensive interface boxes,
using nothing more than simple cables with the right connectors on each
end. There's also a chapter on grounding and bonding.

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
This is a new applications note summarizing my work on *Chokes and
Transformers For Receiving Antennas.
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf>**NEW!*October
2018











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On 2/2/21 1:10 PM, David Eckhardt wrote:
13.56 MHz is an ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) frequency. There
are 7 frequencies allocated by the FCC for that purpose in that specific
ISM band - in a NON_RADIATIVE MANNER. Why are you connecting an antenna to
a 13.56 MHz source?
RFID uses 13.56 MHz with radiated fields (limited, it's true), but all those "near field communications" things are also 13.56 (Subway cards, cashless payments, etc.).

If you're making a "long range" reader (e.g. for a doorway portal application) you wind up with directive arrays of some sort, but you also run into problems with RFI.





Most of the MetCal soldering stations operate on 13.56 MHz.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:57 PM Jim Allyn - N7JA <jim@...>
wrote:

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 05:54 AM, <brown.beard.2020@...> wrote:

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to
add a
ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out
any
noise coming from the environment.
It isn't clear to me what the situation is here. Do you mean you have an
antenna connected to a 13.56 MHz signal coming from a signal generator or
transmitter of some sort, and you wish to transmit that13.56 MHz signal?
Or, you have an antenna you are using to receive a 13.56 MHz signal, and
you would like to prevent interference picked up by the transmission line
from being brought into the shack? Or you have something else (NOT 13.56
MHz) you are trying to receive and the 13.56 MHz signal is interfering with
it? Please clarify.
 

What the dickens are "Squarers"? I'll confess the ISM bands are a good
place to hide possibly illegal and unlicensed emissions. However, as a
licensed ham for some 61 years and worked professionally in the EMC
regulatory world for some 35 years, I can not condone the practice.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:19 PM Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:

Probably has nothing to do with his use, but 13.56 MHz and surrounding
frequencies on shortwave are the homes of many unlicensed CW beacons. Many
are "squarers."

Zack W9SZ

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jim Lux <jim@...> wrote:

On 2/2/21 5:04 AM, brown.beard.2020@... wrote:
Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me to a
more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to
add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter
out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

That's the ISM frequencies just below the amateur radio 20 meter band,
so anything that works for 14 MHz (20m) will probably work just fine for
13.56 MHz.

In general, 31 mix is a good choice for HF - it's suitably lossy at
those frequencies. You might check out K9YC's choke cookbooks and other
writeups..

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

You're presumably at low power for something like a badge reader, so you
probably aren't as interested in low loss transmitter designs.


http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

*RFI, Ferrites, and Common Mode Chokes For Hams
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf>**Most recent update April
2019.*This tutorial is directed specifically to RFI in ham radio
applications. It includes an extended discussion of the use of common
mode chokes in antenna systems and for suppression of RFI. A chapter on
audio and computer interconnections in ham stations shows how to make
bulletproof connections between a computer sound card and ham rigs for
SSB, RTTY, PSK31, and SO2R contesting without expensive interface boxes,
using nothing more than simple cables with the right connectors on each
end. There's also a chapter on grounding and bonding.

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
This is a new applications note summarizing my work on *Chokes and
Transformers For Receiving Antennas.
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
**NEW!*October
2018











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http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
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--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*
 

On 2/2/21 1:46 PM, David Eckhardt wrote:
What the dickens are "Squarers"? I'll confess the ISM bands are a good
place to hide possibly illegal and unlicensed emissions. However, as a
licensed ham for some 61 years and worked professionally in the EMC
regulatory world for some 35 years, I can not condone the practice.


It is legal to run an unlicensed transmitter on 13.56, as long as the power is low enough (i.e. meets Part 15). A few mW is typical, and as sunspots heat up, you could "work the world" with suitable modulation.

And to keep it notionally nanoVNA centric, at that power level, every little bit helps when it comes to designing and match, although the goal isn't low DC power, it's to keep the radiated power below the FCC limit (some 10-20 mV/meter, as I recall).

A NanoVNA might make a handy way to actually measure that radiated field. (or, at least, the antenna efficiency) by using a calibrated antenna on the other port and measuring S21.
 

Yes, RFID uses the 13.56 MHz ISM band (yes, I've worked professionally
there, as well....), but energy is closely coupled only inductively - NOT
in a radiative manner. Some 'uninitiated' engineers call the usually
pringed inductor an antenna, which it certainly is not.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:28 PM Jim Lux <jim@...> wrote:

On 2/2/21 1:10 PM, David Eckhardt wrote:
13.56 MHz is an ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) frequency.
There
are 7 frequencies allocated by the FCC for that purpose in that specific
ISM band - in a NON_RADIATIVE MANNER. Why are you connecting an antenna
to
a 13.56 MHz source?
RFID uses 13.56 MHz with radiated fields (limited, it's true), but all
those "near field communications" things are also 13.56 (Subway cards,
cashless payments, etc.).

If you're making a "long range" reader (e.g. for a doorway portal
application) you wind up with directive arrays of some sort, but you
also run into problems with RFI.





Most of the MetCal soldering stations operate on 13.56 MHz.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:57 PM Jim Allyn - N7JA <
jim@...>
wrote:

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 05:54 AM, <brown.beard.2020@...> wrote:

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to
add a
ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to filter out
any
noise coming from the environment.
It isn't clear to me what the situation is here. Do you mean you have
an
antenna connected to a 13.56 MHz signal coming from a signal generator
or
transmitter of some sort, and you wish to transmit that13.56 MHz signal?
Or, you have an antenna you are using to receive a 13.56 MHz signal, and
you would like to prevent interference picked up by the transmission
line
from being brought into the shack? Or you have something else (NOT
13.56
MHz) you are trying to receive and the 13.56 MHz signal is interfering
with
it? Please clarify.










--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*
 

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 01:10 PM, David Eckhardt wrote:

There are 7 frequencies allocated by the FCC for that purpose in that specific
ISM band - in a NON_RADIATIVE MANNER.
Not so:

§18.305 Field strength limits.
(a) ISM equipment operating on a frequency specified in §18.301 is permitted **unlimited radiated energy** in the band specified for that frequency.
(Emphasis mine.)

However:

(b) The field strength levels of **emissions which lie outside the bands** specified in §18.301, unless otherwise indicated, shall not exceed the following: ...
(Emphasis mine.)
 

The 13 MHz beacons are legal under Part 15. They only run a couple
milliwatts.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-sec15-225.pdf

W1TAG has calculated that the beacons with a couple milliwatts meet the
regulations:

www.w1tag.com/Hifer2.pdf

The FCC has known about them for many years. Never - not once - have they
attempted to shut one down. I am always amazed that we can have propagation
that allows me to hear them in the Midwest!

A squarer is an FSK CW signal with typically a 4 or 5 Hz shift. Many are
QRSS, commonly with a 6-second "dit" and an 18-second "dah." They are
copyable by looking at your radio's audio with a computer sound card with a
program such as Spectrum Monitor, and a frequency range of maybe 20 to 50
Hz. You can visually copy the CW that way. The term "squarer" is in common
use by those of us who copy these beacons.

There are occasionally a couple QRSS squarers at the very bottom of the 40
meter band. The ones I've heard are on 7000.400 and 7000.700 kHz. With a
4-second FSK and a QRSS with the 6-second dit, bandwidth is so narrow that
there is no chance of them being out of the band. The ops only activate
them when they can be there as control operators, so operation is random
and unpredictable. They will QSL reception. I have their QSL's. To the
untrained ear, they sound like carriers. But to those who have been
listening to QRSS squarers, we recognize they aren't just carriers and set
up to decode them.

You learn something new every day, eh? I'm surprised that there aren't more
hams interested in what goes on outside the ham bands on shortwave.

Zack W9SZ

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:47 PM David Eckhardt <davearea51a@...> wrote:

What the dickens are "Squarers"? I'll confess the ISM bands are a good
place to hide possibly illegal and unlicensed emissions. However, as a
licensed ham for some 61 years and worked professionally in the EMC
regulatory world for some 35 years, I can not condone the practice.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:19 PM Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:

Probably has nothing to do with his use, but 13.56 MHz and surrounding
frequencies on shortwave are the homes of many unlicensed CW beacons.
Many
are "squarers."

Zack W9SZ

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jim Lux <jim@...> wrote:

On 2/2/21 5:04 AM, brown.beard.2020@... wrote:
Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me
to a
more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like to
add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to
filter
out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

That's the ISM frequencies just below the amateur radio 20 meter band,
so anything that works for 14 MHz (20m) will probably work just fine
for
13.56 MHz.

In general, 31 mix is a good choice for HF - it's suitably lossy at
those frequencies. You might check out K9YC's choke cookbooks and
other
writeups..

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

You're presumably at low power for something like a badge reader, so
you
probably aren't as interested in low loss transmitter designs.


http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

*RFI, Ferrites, and Common Mode Chokes For Hams
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf>**Most recent update
April
2019.*This tutorial is directed specifically to RFI in ham radio
applications. It includes an extended discussion of the use of common
mode chokes in antenna systems and for suppression of RFI. A chapter on
audio and computer interconnections in ham stations shows how to make
bulletproof connections between a computer sound card and ham rigs for
SSB, RTTY, PSK31, and SO2R contesting without expensive interface
boxes,
using nothing more than simple cables with the right connectors on each
end. There's also a chapter on grounding and bonding.

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
This is a new applications note summarizing my work on *Chokes and
Transformers For Receiving Antennas.
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
**NEW!*October
2018











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http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
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--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*
 

Thanks, Zack! Very interesting. I shall have to listen for them. Thank
you!

Dave

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 1:00 AM Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:

The 13 MHz beacons are legal under Part 15. They only run a couple
milliwatts.


https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2011-title47-vol1-sec15-225.pdf

W1TAG has calculated that the beacons with a couple milliwatts meet the
regulations:

www.w1tag.com/Hifer2.pdf

The FCC has known about them for many years. Never - not once - have they
attempted to shut one down. I am always amazed that we can have propagation
that allows me to hear them in the Midwest!

A squarer is an FSK CW signal with typically a 4 or 5 Hz shift. Many are
QRSS, commonly with a 6-second "dit" and an 18-second "dah." They are
copyable by looking at your radio's audio with a computer sound card with a
program such as Spectrum Monitor, and a frequency range of maybe 20 to 50
Hz. You can visually copy the CW that way. The term "squarer" is in common
use by those of us who copy these beacons.

There are occasionally a couple QRSS squarers at the very bottom of the 40
meter band. The ones I've heard are on 7000.400 and 7000.700 kHz. With a
4-second FSK and a QRSS with the 6-second dit, bandwidth is so narrow that
there is no chance of them being out of the band. The ops only activate
them when they can be there as control operators, so operation is random
and unpredictable. They will QSL reception. I have their QSL's. To the
untrained ear, they sound like carriers. But to those who have been
listening to QRSS squarers, we recognize they aren't just carriers and set
up to decode them.

You learn something new every day, eh? I'm surprised that there aren't more
hams interested in what goes on outside the ham bands on shortwave.

Zack W9SZ


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 3:47 PM David Eckhardt <davearea51a@...>
wrote:

What the dickens are "Squarers"? I'll confess the ISM bands are a good
place to hide possibly illegal and unlicensed emissions. However, as a
licensed ham for some 61 years and worked professionally in the EMC
regulatory world for some 35 years, I can not condone the practice.

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:19 PM Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:

Probably has nothing to do with his use, but 13.56 MHz and surrounding
frequencies on shortwave are the homes of many unlicensed CW beacons.
Many
are "squarers."

Zack W9SZ

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jim Lux <jim@...> wrote:

On 2/2/21 5:04 AM, brown.beard.2020@... wrote:
Hi All

Sorry if this is not the right place to ask. Feel free to point me
to a
more suitable place for my questions.

I have an antenna connected to a 13.56MHz RF signal and would like
to
add a ferrite core to the cable from the antenna to the device to
filter
out any noise coming from the environment.
How do i determine the appropriate specs for the ferrite core?

That's the ISM frequencies just below the amateur radio 20 meter
band,
so anything that works for 14 MHz (20m) will probably work just fine
for
13.56 MHz.

In general, 31 mix is a good choice for HF - it's suitably lossy at
those frequencies. You might check out K9YC's choke cookbooks and
other
writeups..

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm

You're presumably at low power for something like a badge reader, so
you
probably aren't as interested in low loss transmitter designs.


http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

*RFI, Ferrites, and Common Mode Chokes For Hams
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf>**Most recent update
April
2019.*This tutorial is directed specifically to RFI in ham radio
applications. It includes an extended discussion of the use of common
mode chokes in antenna systems and for suppression of RFI. A chapter
on
audio and computer interconnections in ham stations shows how to make
bulletproof connections between a computer sound card and ham rigs
for
SSB, RTTY, PSK31, and SO2R contesting without expensive interface
boxes,
using nothing more than simple cables with the right connectors on
each
end. There's also a chapter on grounding and bonding.

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
This is a new applications note summarizing my work on *Chokes and
Transformers For Receiving Antennas.
<http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RXChokesTransformers.pdf
**NEW!*October
2018











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--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*









--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*

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