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Crystal wanted to change Softrock to receive Ten Tec IF output

 

G'day

I have an old Softrock V6 which for many years was used to tap into the 8.215MHz second IF of a Yaesu FT-1000 and provide a panadapter using HDSDR and CW Skimmer.

I'd like to get hold of the appropriate crystal to use this SR as a pandapter with a tap off a Ten Tec Orion and Eagle 9MHz IF.

Please can someone let me know what the appropriate Softrock crystal frequency is (this info no longer seems readily available) and, if possible, where a crystal of this frequency can be obtained?

Thank you!

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD
 

Hey Steve,

Based on the information on this page: http://www.wb5rvz.org/softrock_lite_ii/index?projectId=8
It looks like you will need an 11.981 MHz xtal.

If I remember correctly you may also need a buffer amplifier.

I just uploaded a document to the files section (Ten-Tec Orion 9 MHz IF Output_VE7TK) that may be helpful.

73,
Patrick KF4LMZ
 

The Softrock uses a crystal that is approximately four times the frequency
you want to receive. It has to be a fundamental mode crystal; the
oscillator circuit is not designed for overtone crystals. That is divided
by four by the divider circuit that generates the quadrature signals. The
30 and 20 meter versions, and some of the IF versions, use 1/3 subharmonic
sampling because fundamental mode crystals for the necessary frequencies
were not readily available at the time.

The crystal frequencies used in the Softrock kits for IF frequencies are
listed on this page:
http://www.wb5rvz.org/softrock_lite_ii/index?projectId=8 They were all
chosen from crystals that could be bought as stock. No option for 9 MHz is
listed, but the 9.015 is close enough, and the required 11.98135 MHz
crystal is still available from Digi-Key and Mouser.

An alternative that is possible now, but which wasn't at the time that Tony
Parks designed the kit, would be to use a 36 MHz crystal. You would have to
move it at least 20 kHz away from that nominal frequency (either side will
do) so that the LO would end up 5 kHz away. You can probably get it moved
that far by adjusting the load capacitance. 36 MHz fundamental mode
crystals are now available, though only in SMD packages.

One further note: the IF of your TenTec is probably not EXACTLY at 9 MHz.
It actually depends on the specific crystals in the filter and varies with
component tolerances; the rig was aligned to match the actual filter. So
the signals in your Softrock could appear in a slightly different place
than you expect.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:51 AM Steve Ireland <stevevk6vz@...> wrote:

G'day

I have an old Softrock V6 which for many years was used to tap into the
8.215MHz second IF of a Yaesu FT-1000 and provide a panadapter using HDSDR
and CW Skimmer.

I'd like to get hold of the appropriate crystal to use this SR as a
pandapter with a tap off a Ten Tec Orion and Eagle 9MHz IF.

Please can someone let me know what the appropriate Softrock crystal
frequency is (this info no longer seems readily available) and, if
possible, where a crystal of this frequency can be obtained?

Thank you!

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD
 

If you need to have a custom crystal made, I highly recommend this company:

http://www.krystaly.cz/en/

They are in the Czech republic but they take US credit cards. Crystals are
not expensive (~$22). Turnaround is generally about 2 weeks. The company is
owned by a ham. I have had excellent service and high-quality crystals over
the years from them. I have had them make a couple dozen crystals over the
last few years. I'm a happy customer.

73, Zack W9SZ

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 7:28 AM Shirley Dulcey KE1L <mark@...> wrote:

The Softrock uses a crystal that is approximately four times the frequency
you want to receive. It has to be a fundamental mode crystal; the
oscillator circuit is not designed for overtone crystals. That is divided
by four by the divider circuit that generates the quadrature signals. The
30 and 20 meter versions, and some of the IF versions, use 1/3 subharmonic
sampling because fundamental mode crystals for the necessary frequencies
were not readily available at the time.

The crystal frequencies used in the Softrock kits for IF frequencies are
listed on this page:
http://www.wb5rvz.org/softrock_lite_ii/index?projectId=8 They were all
chosen from crystals that could be bought as stock. No option for 9 MHz is
listed, but the 9.015 is close enough, and the required 11.98135 MHz
crystal is still available from Digi-Key and Mouser.

An alternative that is possible now, but which wasn't at the time that Tony
Parks designed the kit, would be to use a 36 MHz crystal. You would have to
move it at least 20 kHz away from that nominal frequency (either side will
do) so that the LO would end up 5 kHz away. You can probably get it moved
that far by adjusting the load capacitance. 36 MHz fundamental mode
crystals are now available, though only in SMD packages.

One further note: the IF of your TenTec is probably not EXACTLY at 9 MHz.
It actually depends on the specific crystals in the filter and varies with
component tolerances; the rig was aligned to match the actual filter. So
the signals in your Softrock could appear in a slightly different place
than you expect.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:51 AM Steve Ireland <stevevk6vz@...>
wrote:

G'day

I have an old Softrock V6 which for many years was used to tap into the
8.215MHz second IF of a Yaesu FT-1000 and provide a panadapter using
HDSDR
and CW Skimmer.

I'd like to get hold of the appropriate crystal to use this SR as a
pandapter with a tap off a Ten Tec Orion and Eagle 9MHz IF.

Please can someone let me know what the appropriate Softrock crystal
frequency is (this info no longer seems readily available) and, if
possible, where a crystal of this frequency can be obtained?

Thank you!

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD
 

Hey Patrick

Thank you so much - the WB5RVZ page was exactly what I was looking for, in terms of the table of Softrock crystal frequencies/IF frequencies.

Have a bonza weekend!

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ
 

Hi Shirley

Thank you for the brilliant explanation and information. It is very much appreciated - and gives me exactly what I need.

I dimly recalled there was a reason as to why a fundamental frequency crystal wasn't used in the Softrock, but not exactly why. As the saying goes, reading your explanation "made the scales fall from my eyes." ;-)

I shall go ahead and purchase a crystal. From memory, Mouser has a minimum order price, whereas Digi-key may not?

Have a wonderful weekend and thanks again!

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD
 

Hi Zach

Thank you very much for this information. Crystal suppliers are as rare as hen's teeth these days. It is possible that the Czech Republic may be cheaper to buy a crystal from these days than Digi-Key or Mouser - I shall do some checking ;-)

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD
 

This is a programmable crystal...

https://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock2.html
 

I have a 14.98135Mhz crystal, PM me an address and I will send it USPS first class mail.

Sorry about the delay answering, Tony Parks sent a box of crystals when he transferred the inventory.
I Just completed doing an inventory this morning.
Ben Cherry
Softrock40
AD8AW
 

Sorry, that is 11.98135mhz. I also have a 12.00 but I suspect you'll have better luck with the offset frequency.

Ben Cherry
Softrock40
AD8AW
 

Hi, I want to point out a think about the use of a panadapter, SDR based or whatever, connected to the second IF output of a receiver.

I don't own  FT-1000, but usually the second IF output has a small or very small bandwidth, depending if it is taken  before or after the high selectivity filters. In either case you will get a few kHz and you want as much bandwidth  as you can get to be really useful. I tried that way with a venerable FT-ONE , mainly because it have a IF output, but I found it was not what I desired, so I installed a pickup point in the first IF where it is plenty of BW.  Since the first IF frequency is really high ( 73.115 MHz in the FT-ONE) I could not use a Softrock but a DTV dongle which are dirty cheap. It works with the same SDR programs and I'm very satisfied with the results.

Even I did it in two radios, in the first one I installed the dongle internally with an USB connector in the back panel, and in the other I installed the pickup cable and a coax connector in the panel for an external dongle, which is easier mechanically.

Regards,

Ignacio EB4APL

El 06/03/2023 a las 12:22, Ben Cherry escribió:
Sorry, that is 11.98135mhz. I also have a 12.00 but I suspect you'll have better luck with the offset frequency.

Ben Cherry
Softrock40
AD8AW


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I got a 35 .xx MHz crystal on ebay and used it in a Softrock Lite II for an IF. It took a little fiddling of component values and quality of 2N3905 / 2N3906 to get it to oscillate reliably but it is OK. (maybe I did not initially use transistors from the kit)
I found one site on ebay with 36 MHz for around $3.
David, K0IMH
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393816488432?hash=item5bb14ab9f0:g:JIQAAOSwOrBhw5av&;amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4KWV91LKHggAZ0%2FrjAzD47aZlJHZAnPUpa6PzglxuObqjIEvoyRc3%2BsofAU8LWkIUwpNTLWd3DkT7%2F30uDtywIThzZjLcPbczBHctt2poq60gH5MCvZk0OdJOO6jQH%2FZi9cC3Ki9Q5xoDwO6mg%2FyaXyAkmt7vhaEEcJVCrMAKfXLUvyQE%2Bl%2By9ASSY6XlzN5UecF3I%2F%2BxjqUoSB1RNv9jNiD8ectEuI82J4wi%2FqUlaXRDE%2FD1X1XzZougEeA7YHPFm6tAmG1%2FT9mmkXqCvJSC9F8h7%2Frs52U15p82upemAGc%7Ctkp%3ABFBMkPmo_thh

-----Original Message-----
From: <softrock40@groups.io>
Sent: Mar 9, 2023 11:15 AM
To: <softrock40@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [softrock40] Crystal wanted to change Softrock to receive Ten Tec IF output

The Softrock uses a crystal that is approximately four times the frequency
you want to receive. It has to be a fundamental mode crystal; the
oscillator circuit is not designed for overtone crystals. That is divided
by four by the divider circuit that generates the quadrature signals. The
30 and 20 meter versions, and some of the IF versions, use 1/3 subharmonic
sampling because fundamental mode crystals for the necessary frequencies
were not readily available at the time.

The crystal frequencies used in the Softrock kits for IF frequencies are
listed on this page:
http://www.wb5rvz.org/softrock_lite_ii/index?projectId=8 They were all
chosen from crystals that could be bought as stock. No option for 9 MHz is
listed, but the 9.015 is close enough, and the required 11.98135 MHz
crystal is still available from Digi-Key and Mouser.

An alternative that is possible now, but which wasn't at the time that Tony
Parks designed the kit, would be to use a 36 MHz crystal. You would have to
move it at least 20 kHz away from that nominal frequency (either side will
do) so that the LO would end up 5 kHz away. You can probably get it moved
that far by adjusting the load capacitance. 36 MHz fundamental mode
crystals are now available, though only in SMD packages.

One further note: the IF of your TenTec is probably not EXACTLY at 9 MHz.
It actually depends on the specific crystals in the filter and varies with
component tolerances; the rig was aligned to match the actual filter. So
the signals in your Softrock could appear in a slightly different place
than you expect.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:51 AM Steve Ireland wrote:

G'day

I have an old Softrock V6 which for many years was used to tap into the
8.215MHz second IF of a Yaesu FT-1000 and provide a panadapter using HDSDR
and CW Skimmer.

I'd like to get hold of the appropriate crystal to use this SR as a
pandapter with a tap off a Ten Tec Orion and Eagle 9MHz IF.

Please can someone let me know what the appropriate Softrock crystal
frequency is (this info no longer seems readily available) and, if
possible, where a crystal of this frequency can be obtained?

Thank you!

Vy 73

Steve, VK6VZ/G3ZZD
 

Sorry, I do not have a crystal. However, the later model Eagles have an amplifier just in front of the crystal filter.
There's a TMP connector on the board! You will see filter "suck out" at the 9001.5 kHz IF freq.
I had my Eagle set up with Softrock as pan and second RX using HPSDR. Worked great.
Took it out for some experiments. Expect to put it back in the Eagle or maybe the Argosy one of these days soon.

73, -bob ah7i em73ts

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