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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Hasan,
Also, the range of voltages over which the circuit can give a stabilized output, is not known, unless you know the specifications of that transformer, TR1. The relays in the circuit select taps on the transformer. It won't give you voltages other than the ones the transformer's taps are capable of providing.
Andy
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 01:13 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN wrote:
I might be wrong, but it looks to me like this circuit best provides a voltage boost. I guess there is one choice for voltage reduction. So, it might not be a good choice for handling an over-voltage situation from the mains supply.
I don't understand what you mean by "cut off" situation. What is "cut off"?
Andy
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Am autotransformer is modelled as several inductors in series, paying attention to the “start” marker. Once the inductors are lined up, write one “K” directive, to define the coupling among them; typically, something like “K1 L1 L2 L3 L4 0.98”. The stray single winding is handled exactly the same way, and should be one of the L’s in the K directive.. Regarding the winding “start” indicator: It will not appear until there is a K statement referring to it, so you may need to flip polaraties after they are all placed and the K statement is in place.
Dave
From: LTspice@groups.io <LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of
MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2024 10:13 AM To: ltspice@groups.io Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [LTspice] LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Andy, Thank you to come up some good advice and suggestions. I do believe that if I start drawing circuit in LTspice, may be others can help me for bug fixing, After a time it will be doable. I saw a autotransformer design, that has been done in LTspice, implementing some K factors.
I beg pardon if I violate the group guideline. Looking at the wrong circuit diagram, I found it in online. Some technician might have draw it in some places. I will look for it again.
This type of cheap product was available in market, I also need to understand this circuit can operate with over and under voltage or not. "cut off" situation is important.
I will post the correct file for sure.
On Wednesday, December 25, 2024 at 03:44:57 PM GMT+1, Andy I via groups.io <ai.egrps+io@...> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 02:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN wrote:
The simple answer to your question is this:
LTspice is quite capable of simulating electronic circuits such as this. It is one of the most capable simulators for that. Why go to another tool when you have one of the best in front of you?
That being said, your next step is getting good or good-enough SPICE models for all the parts. R's, C's, and most L's are not a problem. Semiconductors, maybe no problem either, but people come up with obscure transistors and then expect someone else to make them a model. Often a model borrowed from another part is good enough.
Pots can be simulated as two resistors in series, as everyone knows that is what they are.
And then there are the transformers and relays.
Linear transformers (where the core has no hysteresis and does not saturate) are simple to make in SPICE but you need to find the inductances, turns ratio, and DC resistance, and often nobody knows what they are, so that is part of your job. If you have a schematic such as this which has no clues on it, then your work is cut out for you.
Relays? Do you really need to simulate them? You must understand why. And then you can come up with a basic model that works well enough.
Now let's start with a few other matters:
Andy
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Andy, Thank you to come up some good advice and suggestions. I do believe that if I start drawing circuit in LTspice, may be others can help me for bug fixing, After a time it will be doable. I saw a autotransformer design, that has been done in LTspice, implementing some K factors. I beg pardon if I violate the group guideline. Looking at the wrong circuit diagram, I found it in online. Some technician might have draw it in some places. I will look for it again. This type of cheap product was available in market, I also need to understand this circuit can operate with over and under voltage or not. "cut off" situation is important. I will post the correct file for sure.
On Wednesday, December 25, 2024 at 03:44:57 PM GMT+1, Andy I via groups.io <ai.egrps+io@...> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 02:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN wrote:
The simple answer to your question is this:
LTspice is quite capable of simulating electronic circuits such as this. It is one of the most capable simulators for that. Why go to another tool when you have one of the best in front of you?
That being said, your next step is getting good or good-enough SPICE models for all the parts. R's, C's, and most L's are not a problem. Semiconductors, maybe no problem either, but people come up with obscure transistors and then expect someone else to make them a model. Often a model borrowed from another part is good enough.
Pots can be simulated as two resistors in series, as everyone knows that is what they are.
And then there are the transformers and relays.
Linear transformers (where the core has no hysteresis and does not saturate) are simple to make in SPICE but you need to find the inductances, turns ratio, and DC resistance, and often nobody knows what they are, so that is part of your job. If you have a schematic such as this which has no clues on it, then your work is cut out for you.
Relays? Do you really need to simulate them? You must understand why. And then you can come up with a basic model that works well enough.
Now let's start with a few other matters:
Andy
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 02:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN wrote:
The simple answer to your question is this:
LTspice is quite capable of simulating electronic circuits such as this. It is one of the most capable simulators for that. Why go to another tool when you have one of the best in front of you?
That being said, your next step is getting good or good-enough SPICE models for all the parts. R's, C's, and most L's are not a problem. Semiconductors, maybe no problem either, but people come up with obscure transistors and then expect someone else to make them a model. Often a model borrowed from another part is good enough.
Pots can be simulated as two resistors in series, as everyone knows that is what they are.
And then there are the transformers and relays.
Linear transformers (where the core has no hysteresis and does not saturate) are simple to make in SPICE but you need to find the inductances, turns ratio, and DC resistance, and often nobody knows what they are, so that is part of your job. If you have a schematic such as this which has no clues on it, then your work is cut out for you.
Relays? Do you really need to simulate them? You must understand why. And then you can come up with a basic model that works well enough.
Now let's start with a few other matters:
Andy
|
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Le 24/12/2024 à 22:50, John Woodgate a
écrit :
A modern stabilized AC supply would use quite different, probably high-frequency switching, techniques, and LTspice is not the right simulator for such circuits.Unless I misunderstand, it surprizes me, considering LTspice started in 1991 as SwitcherCAD, clearly oriented towards switching regulators. At least, that's what I undersood. |
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Re: Looking for ideal fully differential amplifier spice model
On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 07:53 PM, Tom wrote:
In general, G (current) sources are preferred over E (voltage) sources. Current sources tend to result in fewer problems. Have you thought about why? What would make it work apparently OK with positive feedback rather than negative feedback? One of the things not clearly mentioned in this thread, is the difference between a diff-in-diff-out operational amplifier, and a diff-in-diff-out controlled-gain amplifier. The SPICE model in your earlier message has a 1E+8 voltage gain from input to each output, so it is an op-amp with that much gain, but of course it can be tweaked to any desired gain. The one in the photo you uploaded appears to be a controlled low-gain amplifier, I think - although it does have local feedback through the two capacitors, so maybe it is supposed to be a high-gain op-amp.
Andy
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Re: Looking for ideal fully differential amplifier spice model
It takes 3 sources to make a DI/DO amp with CM ref. I tested both E and G sources. Oddly if the 4 feedback resistors are all equal you can swap the output connections and the circuit still works. That is something you can't do with a manufacture's device model. |
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
There is nothing in the imaged circuit that cannot, in principle, be modelled in LTspice.
The most obscure part is transformer TR1. The main winding (taps A … E) is most likely a specific, commercial part; but without knowing the expected voltages (or turns ratios) of that winding and taps AND the smaller, isolated one (possibly another 18V, like TR2?), it simply cannot be fully functional.
The three relay drivers on the left side almost beg to be modelled as identical subsections, easily done with the information shown. Same with the High/Low cutout circuit on the right side.
If you can get more details, perhaps someone here can help you!
Dave
From: LTspice@groups.io <LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of
MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 2:23 PM To: ltspice@groups.io Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [LTspice] LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
A modern stabilized AC supply would use quite different, probably high-frequency switching, techniques, and LTspice is not the right simulator for such circuits. >>> In some sense the circuit may not be wrong. This oldest types are cheap rate in market.
I will try to simulate it in another tools.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 10:51:45 PM GMT+1, John Woodgate <jmw@...> wrote:
Difficulty number 4. I don't know of anything similar, and I would say that it's very old technology. A modern stabilized AC supply would use quite different, probably high-frequency switching, techniques, and LTspice is not the right simulator for such circuits. On 2024-12-24 21:42, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io wrote: John,
Thank you for the reply. What kind of difficulties you can find? For example
1. Impossible to make transformers function? 2. Relays are Impossible to control? 3. The circuit is big enough and not possible to make sections or subsections? 4. Most of the parts need to be customized.
If possible can you share any similar file to study?
@ Dave, I was missing "?" sign from my last question.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:18:34 PM GMT+1, John Woodgate <jmw@...> wrote:
Quite apart from that, it's impossible to simulate that complex circuit without the full specification of every component. This is undoubtedly impracticable. On 2024-12-24 20:12, Bell, Dave via groups.io wrote: Why would a ZIP file be unsuitable? Unfortunately, most users of Groups.IO will insist on the common .ZIP compression, only.
Dave
From:
LTspice@groups.io
<LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io
Zip file is also not suitable.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:00:08 PM GMT+1, David Schultz via groups.io <david.schultz@...> wrote:
On 12/24/24 1:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io wrote:
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
Best Wishes
John Woodgate
Keep trying
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
A modern stabilized AC supply would use quite different, probably high-frequency switching, techniques, and LTspice is not the right simulator for such circuits. >>> In some sense the circuit may not be wrong. This oldest types are cheap rate in market. I will try to simulate it in another tools.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 10:51:45 PM GMT+1, John Woodgate <jmw@...> wrote:
Difficulty number 4. I don't know of anything similar, and I would
say that it's very old technology. A modern stabilized AC supply
would use quite different, probably high-frequency switching,
techniques, and LTspice is not the right simulator for such
circuits. On 2024-12-24 21:42, MD MUBDIUL HASAN
via groups.io wrote:
John,
Thank you for the reply. What kind of difficulties you can
find? For example
1. Impossible to make transformers function?
2. Relays are Impossible to control?
3. The circuit is big enough and not possible to make
sections or subsections?
4. Most of the parts need to be customized.
If possible can you share any similar file to study?
@ Dave, I was missing "?" sign from my last question.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:18:34 PM GMT+1,
John Woodgate <jmw@...> wrote:
Quite apart from that, it's
impossible to simulate that complex circuit
without the full specification of every component.
This is undoubtedly impracticable. On
2024-12-24 20:12, Bell, Dave via groups.io wrote:
Why would a ZIP file be unsuitable? Unfortunately, most users of Groups.IO will insist on the common .ZIP compression, only.
Dave
From:
LTspice@groups.io
<LTspice@groups.io>
On Behalf Of MD MUBDIUL HASAN via
groups.io
Zip file is also not suitable.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:00:08 PM GMT+1, David Schultz via groups.io <david.schultz@...> wrote:
On
12/24/24 1:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via
groups.io wrote:
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best Wishes John Woodgate Keep trying -- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best Wishes John Woodgate Keep trying |
||
Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Difficulty number 4. I don't know of anything similar, and I would
say that it's very old technology. A modern stabilized AC supply
would use quite different, probably high-frequency switching,
techniques, and LTspice is not the right simulator for such
circuits. On 2024-12-24 21:42, MD MUBDIUL HASAN
via groups.io wrote:
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best Wishes John Woodgate Keep trying |
||
Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
John, Thank you for the reply. What kind of difficulties you can find? For example 1. Impossible to make transformers function? 2. Relays are Impossible to control? 3. The circuit is big enough and not possible to make sections or subsections? 4. Most of the parts need to be customized. If possible can you share any similar file to study? @ Dave, I was missing "?" sign from my last question.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:18:34 PM GMT+1, John Woodgate <jmw@...> wrote:
Quite apart from that, it's impossible to
simulate that complex circuit without the full specification of
every component. This is undoubtedly impracticable. On 2024-12-24 20:12, Bell, Dave via
groups.io wrote:
Why would a ZIP file be unsuitable? Unfortunately, most users of Groups.IO will insist on the common .ZIP compression, only.
Dave
From: LTspice@groups.io
<LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of
MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 12:08 PM To: ltspice@groups.io Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [LTspice] LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Zip file is also not suitable.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:00:08 PM GMT+1, David Schultz via groups.io <david.schultz@...> wrote:
On
12/24/24 1:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io
wrote:
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best Wishes John Woodgate Keep trying |
||
Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Quite apart from that, it's impossible to
simulate that complex circuit without the full specification of
every component. This is undoubtedly impracticable. On 2024-12-24 20:12, Bell, Dave via
groups.io wrote:
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best Wishes John Woodgate Keep trying |
||
Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Why would a ZIP file be unsuitable? Unfortunately, most users of Groups.IO will insist on the common .ZIP compression, only.
Dave
From: LTspice@groups.io <LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of
MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 12:08 PM To: ltspice@groups.io Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [LTspice] LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Zip file is also not suitable.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:00:08 PM GMT+1, David Schultz via groups.io <david.schultz@...> wrote:
On 12/24/24 1:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io wrote:
|
||
Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Zip file is also not suitable.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 09:00:08 PM GMT+1, David Schultz via groups.io <david.schultz@...> wrote:
On 12/24/24 1:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io wrote: > Dear All, > I wanted to build up a voltage stabilizer to study its performance. > Kindly help me to simulate the attached circuit file, here https:// > groups.io/g/LTspice/files/Temp/automatic-stabilzer-circuit-3-relay-5- > step.rar <https://groups.io/g/LTspice/files/Temp/automatic-stabilzer- > circuit-3-relay-5-step.rar> > > You can suggest the variable range functionality of this circuit components. > > Hope you will help me. > This being an LTspice group the starting point would be you posting your LTspice files. Not a picture of a schematic. -- http://davesrocketworks.com David Schultz |
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Re: LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
On 12/24/24 1:50 PM, MD MUBDIUL HASAN via groups.io wrote:
Dear All,This being an LTspice group the starting point would be you posting your LTspice files. Not a picture of a schematic. -- http://davesrocketworks.com David Schultz |
||
LM324 based automatic voltage stabilizer circuit simulation
Dear All, I wanted to build up a voltage stabilizer to study its performance. Kindly help me to simulate the attached circuit file, here https://groups.io/g/LTspice/files/Temp/automatic-stabilzer-circuit-3-relay-5-step.rar You can suggest the variable range functionality of this circuit components. Hope you will help me. BR HASAN |
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Re: Ferromagnetic core modeling.
On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 03:34 PM, Andy I wrote:
You are right, dropping Character Map would be a dumb idea. When I still used Windows years ago, it was a useful tool to me. I used it often to copy/insert non-standard chars into documents. Change for the sake of change is the dumbest idea ever, in my opinion.
--
-- Regards, Abes |
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Re: Confused, adding a pin to an existing Symbol and .cir
On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 09:14 PM, Bell, Dave wrote:
There is no record that you ever uploaded a corrected file, until now. I'm guessing that you uploaded it to a different group and later downloaded it from that other group. Or maybe you imagined doing both? But the modified file never made it to the group until now (0111 UTC). It would have to be a really major "glitch" for the file to show up but have no record of it in the group's activity log, and then to spontaneously disappear some time later.
But thanks!
Andy
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Re: Confused, adding a pin to an existing Symbol and .cir
But I see that the one I had was quite different from the one you uploaded in August. Seems to work, and has the same calling structure (A B W Vpct vs. 1 2 3 Vpct), so def related.
From: LTspice@groups.io <LTspice@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Bell, Dave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2024 6:07 PM To: LTspice@groups.io Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [LTspice] Confused, adding a pin to an existing Symbol and .cir
Ahh, thanks – I couldn’t remember who uploaded it. I had in my local folder for a while…
From: LTspice@groups.io <LTspice@groups.io>
On Behalf Of eetech00 via groups.io
Hi
A while back I uploaded "Multi_VCPot_Test_20240813.zip" that demonstrates how to use multiple vcpots.
And...yes..each pot has a hidden pin that expects a voltage source to control the rotation percentage. If each pot is expected to rotate independently of each other, then each pot requires a dedicated rotation voltage source. Or, they can be ganged together by using a common voltage source.
eT |
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